Featured: Moses Hacmon. Photography by Tal Givony and Smadar Kafri.
Moses Hacmon (born 1977) is an Israeli artist best known for his commitment to the study and education about the subject of water. He developed a technique to capture forms in water that are invisible to the naked eye. He is committed to spreading his theory that water is the source of all consciousness. His art can be described as kinetic art, photography, BioArt, liquid photography, flow-tography, nature photography, scientific photography, and motion photography. Moses Hacmon studied cinematography and fine art at Avni Institute of Art and Design in Tel-Aviv. In 2006 Moses completed his B.Arch with AIA honors award, from SCI arc (Southern California Institute of Architecture). After graduating Moses started intense training in movement and dance with Body Weather Laboratory to explore water in a somatic manner. Whether you are religious, spiritual, an atheist or scientist, everyone agrees that water is the source of life, if not life itself. Every living thing on our planet originated from water. We are sustained by its vital combination of hydrogen and oxygen in a perfect ratio of two-to-one. And it was in water that man first saw his reflection, had his first glimpse of his existence. But we cannot actually see water. It is clear. What we see when we look at water is light reflected off its surface. Water is - always has been -- unseeable... until now. Moses Hacmon's FACES OF WATER is part art, part science, part spiritual awakening. It is a breathtaking, haunting collection of photographic images of water that transforms and advances our understanding of this life-giving substance, exposes a layer of reality previously hidden from sight.
Florian DAVID: Hi Moses, how are you today?
Moses HACMON: I am great thank you, we were hanging the pieces for the show at Arcane Space.
DAVID: So you are in Los Angeles now?
HACMON: Yes I am in Venice California taking a little break from work to speak to you. I like what you are doing because since everything is going soon to be automated, people will work less and less and culture is going to be where people ought to spend their time more, this is what people are going to do. The structure that you are putting ahead is going to be very much sought-after because as we move forward with technology most people are going to be free to become artists or consumers of art! My project is educational I don’t even consider myself an artist, in the past artists used to be a scientists, psychologists, philosophers, that is more of what I do rather than making beautiful images.
DAVID: I see you are more of a cross-disciplinary messenger? [smile]
HACMON: Yes, I try to put myself out there.
DAVID: Yes, I see there is a pedagogical dimension to your activity, you really want to share your message with the world not just simply put up your artwork on a wall. This is a dimension I thought was very interesting; I took part in France to the launch of the very first French television network for knowledge and education and we had gathered a community of the viewers, and they were invited to physical events built around our great programming. I always very much enjoyed these interactions with the audience. I really believe that this is where the media ought to be and what they ought to be doing. Their role should be to encourage our willingness to be more curious about the world. As well as share more positive news!
How did your project on water start?
ONE DAY IT HAPPENED, IT WAS LIKE A GIFT THAT I RECEIVED,
DURING ONE OF MY EXPERIMENTS I SAW THAT I COULD ACTUALLY SEE THROUGH WATER.
HACMON: The beginning of this project? I was still a child. I studied cinema in high school and architecture in college, and when I was studying architecture my goal was to find who was the architect of nature. So I was looking at a tree as if it were a building and trying to figure out who built it and who was living in that building. So that was my experiment. I was looking at nature through architecture, and through that study, I found water. My initial object of study was not water. My goal was to find the architect so I ended-up finding that water was the architect of animals and people and that it was also the dweller; so I realized that this widespread idea that water would be the canvass for life was not that correct, as water was more the painter. Water is active and the canvas is actually the soil. Water uses the soil to build stuff. The soil is the canvass, or the paint. So I was studying my own consciousness, my own spirit, where does it come from where does it go and is even dying a possibility, is it even real? What I found-out working on this experiment, I realized that water is actually the body of consciousness, water is alive inside of all of us, but water never dies, and suddenly the amount of answers I got through this experiment was a lot more than I could even ask for [laughs] and suddenly I am seeing things with the actual blueprint of life; but at that point I had not yet made that discovery of ‘Face of Water’; that came a bit later - I believe that once I started treating water as a living being and acknowledging it as such, then through experiment one day it happened, it was like a gift that I received, during one of my experiments I saw that I could actually see through water. You know, as an architect you are always looking for shape, form, at design for inspiration, trying to figure out the true shape of things. We think that water has no form, does not have a shape, in fact that is not true. If you want to actually see water you need to create movement - same as for the wind, you can not see the wind; but if you start putting dust or debris inside then you start seeing a form that is there. It is the same for water, with all its streams and currents, water moves all the time, and all these movements have form. So I knew that if I wanted to see water, I had to capture these movements inside the water. If you merely take pictures of water all you see are reflections on the surface, it is more like a mirror. You don’t actually see the water itself.
DAVID: I was amused the other day seeing you give an interview because the interviewer was a bit shocked when you said that we can not see water. He rolled his eyes, looked up and said: 'But I can see the ocean, I can see there is water in my glass!'…But what you answered then is true: what we can see is the red fish in the water tank, but if not for the fish or the tank itself, if just water were standing there, it is totally transparent, we would not be able to see it, it is invisible! What we see is the reflection of the sky on the ocean, as well as the reflection of the ground at the bottom etc. Water itself is transparent, like the air between you and me.
HACMON: Actually there is also water between you and me. The air is filled with water! You know how humid it can get. We are born into a world and we accept it as is. This world is a place to discover things! And it is true, people do tell me all the time 'I can see water, I know it’s over there…' But to 'know it is over there' does not mean that you can see it, these are two different things! I am facing this every day I tell people that they can not see water and they respond 'Yes I can!'. My role is educational because I found something new and different. I want to educate people about that. But when you think how important water is to the world, from our food, to the air, to the water supply itself, how come do we give water so little importance? And I think the reason is because we can not see it. We think that it is there, and that it will always be there, that there is loads of it, and we do not worry about it. People can throw chemicals in their drains because it ‘goes somewhere else’ they do not understand that we live in an aquarium! Earth is a closed system. If we do not clean it, it will become dirty and it all comes back to us. And I really believe that because we can not see water we have been ignoring it. We haven’t seen the magical properties it has! If we could actually see water we could just put an aquarium of water on our table and it would be just incredible to watch! You will not need to put plant or fishes in it really, because there is already so much happening in there that you simply can not see with your eyes!
DAVID: So maybe your next piece will be three-dimensional? Maybe you would be able to show in 3D what you can see now in your pieces…?
HACMON: Yes, the next step is video, so we can actually see water in movement. What I see live is far more exciting than still images, it is actually so much more interesting!
DAVID: This resonates very much with me. People always use that metaphor of the journey, ‘going through life’, when in fact I have always felt deeply that it is life that is going through us, not the other way around! [laughs]
HACMON; Absolutely! We did not make ourselves, you know? [laughs]. Human beings did not make human beings this is the first illusion we have to get rid of. Human beings are like a corporation, your body is made of one hundred trillion cells gathered together into one single entity and that is you! You are the King of a kingdom of one hundred trillion cells where every single cell is conscious and aware. You see, we are giants. and I think that this is something that most people do not understand. We are giants. Single cells are the one individuals actually experiencing life. When we landed on the Moon I thought oh my god the first single cell has made it to the moon! For a single cell to go through evolution, create all the life that we know and get all the way to space is incredible. Human beings are the first spaceships! Plants, animals, humans, all single cells are pretty much the same, the real difference is how they get their power. In a plant they are green because they are solar panels, that is how they get their energy, from the sun, whereas your body gets it through combustion. These small single cells of H2O are actually running the world, that is the first architecture.
DAVID: This is one fascinating tenet of your theory, that we, animals, humans, are the expression, through forms, of that intelligence.
HACMON: Absolutely. Most spiritual people agree that most things have a certain amount of vibrations. That is potential. But look around you in your room, look at your desk, your chairs, anything: these things are passive, there is not one of them that will create anything. The only thing to date that we have found to be active - we may one day find others - is water, moving, changing! And in philosophy there are only two options for movement. Either you are a conscious being who decided to move from here to there, or you are an object that was put into movement by a conscious being - say such as a satellite floating in space. Even when we look at automation in nature, it is a sign of consciousness.
DAVID: How about atoms that are vibrating?
HACMON: Yes, everything has a potential, a certain vibration, the atoms in a brick are vibrating but that brick will never create anything, it has no will, no desire, no consciousness. A material that is active and conscious is a material that can move things around. To me water are the hands of consciousness that is moving matter within reality. And that is what is so unique about consciousness. Its ability to change its environment, its ability to manipulate matter. For the time being, the only element that does that is water.
DAVID: I must say one thing is absolutely baffling in your works: the level of perfection of the replication in the water of some well-known other existing shapes in the universe. I am thinking in particular of one of your photos where we see what looks like a rose with petals, quite fascinating. You can see thorns…How does that come alive? Looking at this you can not but wonder and ask ‘how is this possible?’
HACMON: [Laughs] Looking at most of nature that is the question I ask myself! [Laughs] When you look at nature and realize its complexity, it is that complexity that informs you that there is intelligence. The theory of evolution claims that it is a random evolution of DNA, a DNA which we do not know where it came from by the way - and then that DNA mutated so everything would be like an abnormality. This does not hold when you look around you, there is no abnormality or chaos, all you see is order, design, function, efficiency, every words that are the opposite of randomness. The mathematics of evolution is correct, that is true, starting with one cell, then two cells, then four cells, etc ...Which build things up, but the claim that this evolution is random was never proven either. This is what is so interesting. Evolution is one tree, going back to the beginning of life there is basically only one strain of DNA that has evolved over millions of years. Every living entity on this planet goes back to the same ancestor, to one tree. How can that be? How isn’t there another tree? How wasn’t there another spark of life that is different? There is none. If evolution was really what most are claiming it is, since it is about mutating and adapting it would have found ways to evolve without water, as some organisms have found ways to evolve without air, but there is not one single organism that is not based on water, it does not exist. So yes, mathematically, life only occurs in water, but I say only water has life. We go to other planets looking for water saying if there is water there might be life, why don’t we say that water IS life? How much life is there on the moon right now? There is lot of matter, lots of energy from the sun but nothing is happening. Why? Why are all the planets around us deserts?
DAVID: What I find interesting is how people who dare question the status quo are getting burned [laughs]. I am thinking of scientists like Jacques Benveniste who had developed a theory about the memory of water, an interesting field of investigation now taken over by another renowned scientist Professor Montagnier who discovered the AIDS’ virus. I think you ought to speak to him. Galileo too and Copernicus were declared to be heretics and were asked to reverse their positions, one for claiming that the earth was round, and the other for discovering that the earth was going round the sun and not the contrary! [laughs]
HACMON: Here’s what I believe: I think that I am water. I am the consciousness that is experiencing the world. Water is not using me, no, I am water. I am against this idea of ‘Mother earth’ this is not interesting, earth is just a rock. I am water. This is my identity. 'Ashes to ashes dust to dust', that is not me! Water to water, that, is the cycle of the soul. Where are all the souls going? Into the oceans.
We are consciousness on this rock trying to figure out what is going on. Water likes to be warm, it does not like to be frozen. The ice age was a trauma for water, if we freeze this planet we are done. There is not one bad person on this planet, but there is a lot of ignorance, I don’t believe that there are any devils, just water doing things for water. From day one there was rock and water. There was not even soil. Water broke it down to make soil and then built structures. And the scale in which life is built is in the microscope, this is where the beginning of life happened. If someone wants to claim that there is a god, then he is tiny [laughs], he is to be found under the microscope! It is the opposite of what we like to imagine, this huge entity above and beyond everything! [laughs].
DAVID: That is all very well as far as here on earth is concerned, but then what about the rest of the cosmos?
THERE IS A LARGER BODY OF CONSCIOUSNESS OUT THERE IN THE UNIVERSE THAT IS WAITING TO WAKE UP.
HACMON: Well there is lots of water in space, that has been scientifically established. I believe that our goal is to connect to that water and bring it back to the stream, the majority of which is frozen in time. And time is measurement of movement of water, that is all it is. There is no time on the moon! unless we are there, there is no activity. You see, time is the measurement of activity within space. So the majority of space is frozen in time as far as water is concerned. There is a larger body of consciousness out there in the universe that is waiting to wake up. That is our job, we are the spark. We are the people who are supposed to do that.
DAVID: I see, this is a question that we often like to ask ourselves: do we exist if no one is watching?
HACMON: Right. There is no time on the moon. The measurement of time is measurement of movement through space. Time is flexible. For water, time and temperature is one unit. So if it is really cold things start to slow down, when it is really hot things get faster, just ask a chemist, if they want to move forward in time in their experiment they heat it up. If I want to slow down time alltogether I put my food in the freezer right? So time and temperature are one unit when it comes to water, so when water is frozen, it is frozen in time.
DAVID: Before we dive a bit more into who is Moses Hacmon, the human being, I would like to help our audience understand one more thing about your artworks - which are both the fruit of a research process and a pedagogical endeavor. Can you in three sentences explain to us the actual technic that you have invented to make visible what would otherwise be invisible to our eyes?
HACMON: I will say as much as I can because this is being patented. This ties into the beginning of what we said earlier, it has to do with movement and water. I need to see what happens inside water when water is in movement. In regular photography we use a film that is sensitive to light, we take silver crystals that are sensitive to light - these are the grains that you see when you zoom in right? - and at the beginning they come in liquid form and they are applied to the film or the paper and then they are fixed right? So what I developed is a film that is still liquid. You see, my film is never fixed on a plastic or anything, and this liquid film is sensitive to movement, so what it captures is the movement in the water, it is almost like kinetic photography, in any scale, so the images that you see are NOT MICROSCOPIC photographies - people are used to seeing this level of complexity only in a microscope - but all these images are in real scale. It is a bit as if I applied paint all over your face and then took a flexible piece of paper and took the imprint. I would obtain your three dimensional face on this two-dimensional piece of paper. So what you see is really three dimensional.
DAVID: Yes it is really water sculpting your film in fact!
HACMON: Exactly, that's exactly that. So what you see is what it IS, you see the movement, you see the energy. Then you start to see forms of life as we know it, and this is just water. And how is that even possible, as the forms of life that we know were supposed to be random no? So how can we find them in water to begin with? So either the French scientist you mentioned (Jacques Benveniste) was right and it is the water’s memory of these forms, or this is really how life came to be, movement within water. Movement was the first thing that happened. In any philosophies there is this mysticism of vibrations starting life, be it Chinese, Jewish, Christian, all started with a word of god. Words are vibrations they are soundwaves in water: life started with movement in water. And that is what we want to see. And now we can.
DAVID: One other thing intrigued me in your work. You say that what we observe is not just the result of physical movement impulsed on water - say by soundwaves - but also the results of metaphysical interactions such as thoughts? Can you please elaborate on this?
I AM NOT ANY MORE JEWISH, OR BLACK OR CHINESE, I AM NOT ANY OF THOSE, I AM WATER.
I AM NOT A MAN, I AM NOT A WOMAN, I AM WATER AND THAT IS WHAT UNITES EVERYONE.
HACMON: I think we often know things before we can prove them. For instance what Masaru Emoto did was controversial. I do believe that his works were not scientifical but what he found what truth, he just did not have a way to show it. Every new idea is controversial. To me as an artist in the field of science what I bring to science is the concept of avant-garde, we are at the cutting edge, we are at the front. We are not supposed to be right or wrong we are here to get the maximum of information from that front edge before we die. That’s all. I can count at least fifty PHDs that people could work on now from my project on water. I will not be able to do them in my lifetime. But I am setting up the space and the structure to do that, because there is something to continue here. I am trying to stay focused because you can get lost very easily in that work. Ninety nine percent of the time I am alone by myself or with water. We want to inspire people, there is so much to discover out there right now. And so many people are just wanting to get rich and famous! Let me tell them this, well, first of all this is not going to make you happy, instead you should find a way to help! You are part of a bigger body! You are part of this world! Your job is to be here to construct, to discover, to help other people discover, you are part of something! And I think that with this work on water people understand what they are part of something. I am not any more Jewish or Black or Chinese, I am not any of those, I am water, I am not a man, I am not a woman, I am water and that is what unites everyone. Most of my body is water, and so we are mostly equals. I am a body of water I don’t have a colour. I know who I am exactly so I am not limited in my life by my body, by my gender, by anything really, and this also helps people understand what can be going on. Maybe your spirit is more feminine and you happen to be in a man’s body, or maybe your spirit is more masculine and you happen to be in a female body, there are many more ways to understand that once you understand that spirit comes first, before this body. The fact that you ARE before this body. And that thing that we are has nothing to do with the limitation of matter. Once you enter this physical body you enter into a limitation: you are this tall, you are skinny or fat, you are a man or a woman, this is the family you were born to, the place etc…Now all you are going to say about your body are limitations. And what we are trying to do is build a better world with less limitations. I say ride for more water! Water in the ocean is actually humbling. Water wants to be warm, it wants to be inside, it wants to be connected, there are so many things you understand once you understand what water wants and study nature through single cells and understand what water wants and what it is doing. That’s why I’m an architect, water is an architect, so we need to build and pursue the work. I am really trying to give water an identity. I like Miazake who puts eyes on the waves and gives it identity, also a visual identity, as in most children’s books water somehow disappears. And now is the time. When I give talks I see people getting inspired.
DAVID: I am interested in yourself and in your background. You were born in Israel.
HACMON: Yes, an island surrounded by enemies!
DAVID: Fortunately it is also surrounded by a lot of friends! [Laughs]. I would like to know, what type of teenager were you? Tell me how you became an inventor, I think that is a mindset.
HACMON: Yes it’s a mindset, I have been sculpting and drawing since young, and my drawings actually looked like ‘faces of water’. It also has to do with my search for justice in the world, for answers about who we are what we are. In Israel we study one of the books of the bible, then we turn 13 and you finish studying the bible. And the bible ends on the fact that god was so upset with us that he would never talk to us again! And I took it so personally! What were they talking about? I have just arrived in this world, I have done nothing wrong to anyone, so why would god not talk to me? What do you mean? The past generations have been so bad that god got so angry that he will never come back? I refused to accept that. So that's how my journey started, I went out to look for he or she, or whatever that might be.
DAVID: So at 13 you started searching for God?
HACMON: In fact 10, but 13 is the moment when I thought wait a minute this is unacceptable. But I usually don’t use the word god, I only used it because in Israel that is the word I was hearing. I use the word Consciousness - God is such a difficult word to use it means something different to everyone. So when people ask me do you believe in god or do you believe in evolution, I answer none of those! The two options that you are offering me are not acceptable.
I would constantly draw, I would spend a lot of time alone drawing and thinking. I was hanging out with plants and animals and trying to understand what I was looking at. There was a farm just next to our house. I was just wandering in nature.
DAVID: Were you a unique child?
HACMON: I am the oldest of four siblings. We are all artists. Till now I was the only one to have come to America and my youngest sister just moved to Los Angeles. Another brother lives in New York, he is doing his Masters in arts.
In Israel there is a mandatory service and I was in the Israeli Air Force, in which very few people get accepted. I did not really want to join the Air Force but since everyone thought I couldn’t I did it to prove everyone wrong! [laughs]. I spent a year and a half in the flight school. When I left the military after three years I really wanted to catch up for that time. And I went into sculpture!
By the way today my goal is no longer to prove everyone wrong! [laughs]
DAVID: How much thoughts have you given about the influence of your first name (‘Moses’) on your obsession with water?
HACMON: [Pause. Hesitating] It is hard to say, I am trying to understand the question too. I made the actual discovery of the images in 2013, but all my knowledge about water was posterior to that.
DAVID: That is fantastic, I am glad that you did not understand the question.
HACMON: No, I was not a water person at all before.
DAVID: [Laughing - seeing that the question is not being understood] It seems to me obviously that you never even really established that connection between what you are doing and your first name. Well, 'Moses' - in the Bible! - had quite a peculiar relationship with water, didn’t he? Your first name bears a heavy connection with water and it seems that this never even crossed your mind!
HACMON: [Seeming surprised - Laughing] True! The thing that I used to take from my name…You know what the name means, it is an action, when Pharaoh pulls the baby out of the water, that action of pulling life from the water is what my name means, it is an action. So I always saw the name as a symbol, a mythology, of life coming out of the water, that is more how I looked at it, I really don’t think about myself as much.
DAVID: Personally it strikes me how this name resonates with the path on which you have embarked.
HACMON: Let’s say yes, that there is something a bit magical about this. There are a lot of moments like that with connections that seem to be bigger, but that’s where I leave it at. There are certain decisions that were made even before I was even born. Again, you are alive even before you were being born. Your journey into this world started a long time ago and the decisions we make, where to come back to, how to come back etc... I don’t know! But you know, I played in a movie here as Jesus [laughs] but really I decided to stick to water and shy away physically from the world. Many people would like to play Jesus, personally I am actively shying away from this!
DAVID: Can I ask then about this experience playing Jesus? Did that give you any opportunities to investigate things about Jesus? What have you learned?
HACMON: Well yes, that was a magical moment, because when I arrived in America I realized how ignorant I was about Christianity and I actively started studying about him (Jesus). And as I had just finished learning about him when I graduated from college, then started looking for a job. And as I started to look online for a job, the first thing that came up was this ad by National Geographic who were looking for someone to play Jesus! And so I just let my hair grow long for the first time - people used to tell me all the time that I looked like him yet I did not see that resemblance. When I sent my application along with a photo for the casting, I was pretty sure that they would not accept me and that I would prove everyone wrong again [laughs] - but surely enough they signed me up the next day, so I ended up going to Israel with National Geographic and going to all the places where Jesus went! And I learned about his life firsthand - and I actually got baptized at the Jordan part of this trip - so to me it was a very unique experience, and in a sense I believe that this is the natural evolution of life: from Moses to Jesus. Moses was the law - you have Ten Commandments and you have to follow them - they are external guidelines for life, whereas you can channel Jesus, you can become him in that time of you. I think that is a beautiful evolution how we believe and can operate in the world through that channeling. And when I look at Christians countries I appreciate what they give to the world, when there are other places when I am not even allowed to travel to.
DAVID: You said earlier that what you were drawing aged 10 already looked like what you later on uncovered - these shapes inside water. Can you please elaborate on this?
HACMON: It is more a flow. When I draw I become like a channel, I do not know what I am going to draw and when I am done I am as surprised as you about what I see on the paper - and I would never be able to do it again! So as a kid the lines would flow and these drawing, this is what they looked like, the movement of water. At the time, I was about ten, I had invented this floating creature, a bit like an octopus, like a drop of water with tentacles. He had become that symbol of the spirit, of the soul, the essence of man.My siblings are the ones that are in shock because they saw all these drawings and most people have not seen them, and then they saw my current artworks 'Faces of Water' and are wondering what is happening here, how is this possible?
DAVID: What did you take away from your childhood in Israel?
HACMON: One thing to understand about this country is that it is an island surrounded by enemies. That means that on a daily basis you do not get to experience other ways of being. When I left Israel I was trying to be aware of what actually shapes my mind, my thinking, and I saw how much the specific environment that you are born into shapes you. This is why I became an architect, as I believe that designing better environments helps make us better people.
DAVID: How old were you when you left Israel?
HACMON: Right after the military, I was 21.
DAVID: How easy was it to arrive in an unknown land?
HACMON: I knew nothing and no one, I just showed up here. It is something you do only once I guess you have to be a certain age to have the guts to do that. I just showed up by myself, found a job, paid for a private school myself I have been working full time since I was 14, saving money, and I did not even know then that I was saving money for the water project. I just knew that I had a project in front of me at some point, so I was always getting ready for that.
DAVID: When did you first realize that there is so much in the universe that we do not perceive as humans? Do you remember a specific time?
HACMON: Very early on, when I was drawing these creatures. But in Israel my mind was preoccupated, to busy surviving. I was only able to connect back to myself when I arrived in the US. I was in so much pain before, I could not connect to myself. When people ask me about Los Angeles, I do not say that I moved here, I say that I actually came back here. There was something here for me from before.
DAVID: What do you like about Los Angeles?
HACMON: It is a city of bubbles. You can make your own bubble and function within your little space. There is a lot of space. The City of Angels! [laughs] I do not know exactly - but I had dreams as a kid before I came here. So I just came back here to continue my work.
DAVID: You felt that you belonged there.
HACMON: Yes. Feeling good and, importantly, connecting with myself, with my mind. Ninety nine per cent of the day I am here by myself and I think. I take a problem and in my mind it becomes a three-dimensional geometric shape. And I hold it in my mind. And I attack it from all angles to solve it. And I hold a lot of different ideas at the same time too!
DAVID: Can you give us an example of what you woke up with to solve today?
HACMON: Yes, right now I am very much thinking of the theory of evolution and I am constantly attacking it from different angles. It is constantly moving, I have tons of notebooks and notes that I take and constantly develop those and then keep digging deeper. And then with these notes I started making videos for my Youtube Channel. This past year, having this channel made me so happy, because this is a place where I was able to express myself. Otherwise I felt that the knowledge was building up inside of me and eating me alive. I had to put it all out. Once you take an idea and put it out there, that’s it, it is done! So now I am just excited about taking all these ideas and putting them out there. There are a few stories that I am working on, one is about the beginning of life, it is like an animation, about this liquid forest and how life started. It shows how nature made man and why. Because, you know, nature was perfectly fine before there were human beings! [laughs]
DAVID: Right! [laughs]
HACMON: Human beings were made for a specific purpose. We were made for a very specific purpose that most of us will have a difficult time to take on board, but we are here for a purpose. So all these things I explain. My biggest asset is that I do not speak very good English, so I have to find a way of explaining things that are very complex with very simple words, and people can relate easily to what I explain.
DAVID: What would you say is the ONE thing that you are wanting to achieve, what is the most important thing to you?
HACMON: Then end-goal would be that nobody calls me a human anymore but understands that our identity is water. Human is just a label, it has no meaning. Then I would like us to connect the dots and do what we do from that singular point of view. Water is the body of Consciousness. Consciousness is tangible and magical like water. This is that drop of water that I posted the other day on Instagram, I thought this is exactly what my soul looks like, what else would it look like? Flexible, life-giving, it can be a plant, a person, a cloud, it is an architect, it is active, it is exactly what you would expect the soul to be. I have these glasses on, I want to give these glasses to everyone else. When I have conversations one-on-one with a person, they get these glasses. They call me the next day and say 'wow, I understood what you are talking about'! I will probably give more lectures and do more videos to reach a wider audience.
DAVID: What do you think will be the global implications of your findings? If we all understood what you are wanting to demonstrate?
HACMON: I think the implications are huge. Right now we have a hard time identifying what is true and what is not. So it is hard to decide what is good and what is bad. But from the point of view of water, as an architect, for instance breaking down architecture is bad. If I have a child and somebody kills him that is bad, cutting a tree is bad etc. Destruction of the architecture of water is bad it is not a good thing; you start finding anchors about what we should and shouldn’t do. But today in the world of atheism, there is no good or bad, people walk into a world that has no meaning while we are pure function [laughs]. We ARE meaning, we are walking meaning machines! So between the old structure of religion and governments to a place of nothing and no meaning, I stand somewhere in the middle. There is meaning, there is function and we have a job to do and we have to do it because there are actual goals to achieve.
DAVID: What is your definition of Love in that context?
HACMON: All love is self love. It is internal. You never love somebody outside of you, everything you love is you.
DAVID: You mean a projection of yourself?
HACMON: No, I mean literally you. If your water goes back to the ocean you become the whole ocean. There is no separation. So we actually created love, we split ourselves away to have this attraction to come back together, so as to create movement. This energy and attraction, it is like magnets. So love is something that is internal, everything you love is you, and everything you hate is you. So you better have self-love than self hate!
DAVID: What is your definition of Art?
HACMON: Art is expression, water mostly expresses itself. Whether it is through a movement or form, it is expression, it is the evidence that consciousness is well and alive, making something out of nothing. It is magic. I am personally more of an alchemist, so for me art is part of science and scientific delivery. Some people are just agents of beauty, creating harmony, melodies, visual, sonic, whatever, but it is an expression, are you happy or you are sad, art shows what’s happening inside you.
DAVID: I have had in me this idea a long time that we ARE the environment - as we often tend to dissociate ourselves - humans - from the world. So I really like what you are doing because your works can have massive implications in the way that we perceive ourselves in this context, and as you said, make the right choices going forward and treat our planet well, that is to say just love ourselves at last!
HACMON: I really try to educate a lot of activists. Many activists come from the point of view that man is bad and not part of nature. Not only this point of view is not logical, it is almost criminal. It is important to understand what we are, so we can actually improve and move forward. So I personally come from a very unique point of view, because most people in my field think that man is bad. It is very important to understand that we are part of a much bigger plan. For instance, to understand that if we do not leave this planet we might not survive. That is scientifically proven, Elon Musk also talks about this extensively. And this is why human beings were made. Dinosaurs got extinct. My furthest vision is that we are here to gather the rest of the clear channels of water that is free-flowing in outer space into one stream, but that is a biblical vision or masterplan, I do not want to get into that space here! But there is a much much bigger masterplan.
DAVID: You are also a performer, you are a dancer. Can you please tell us what dance brought to your life? And also what are your musical influences?
HACMON: Dance is really important because I think that understanding movement and the source of movement is fundamental. Dance is movement. Most of the people I work with are either dancers or musicians. They immediately understand what they see in the water when they look at ‘faces of water’ and they understand that they are truly conscious beings, not just machines. When you are connected to dance, you can move and improvise and find a certain flow and be beyond words. Just that pure feeling of movement, the joy of movement. To me it is a moment when I am confident that I am conscious. It is also very healthy for the body. That is what we are, movement of matter through water, that is what life is. So you can dance through the streets or be a tree glowing, it is the same feeling. For me dance was very important, even understanding the relationship between movement and sound: people often argue about what came first, the first movement or the first sound? Now I know that it was first movement.
As far as music is concerned, music is my biggest inspiration, music is on 24/7, every room is tuned to a different radio station, I go to sleep with music, I wake up with music. But I don’t play music because this is the one thing I enjoy! [laughs].
DAVID: I can relate with that. All echoing what Beckett said: "Dance first think later". This is the natural order.
In your childhood who was your hero, and today is there still someone who inspires you?
HACMON : As a kid very naturally I was looking up to my dad, he was always independent, not working for any company, always re-inventing himself doing different kinds of jobs, and I feel that in the same way I am very independent. Regarding arts and architecture, there is not one person in particular, I have always been more drawn to nature, it has always been plants and animals. The visual information in nature is real. I don’t read text, I cannot read more than one sentence, I am fully visual. All the knowledge that I have gathered has been through analyzing nature in front of me. Reading is painful for my mind it takes up too much space.
DAVID: Do you feel lonely at times? First, you are water, not everyone has come to that realization [Laughs]. Do you sometimes feel lonely about this universe that you are discovering?
HACMON: The answer is yes [laughs] - and I have got to say that as time passes by I feel a bit less lonely. At the beginning no one was even understanding what I was talking about or believe me. That was very hard and lonely. Because it was not just that I was lonely physically in my space, I was also lonely in my mind and I didn’t know at that point if I went crazy, so …
HACMON: Yes, so I had to check if I was crazy [laughs] or if I was right, I had to find ways to prove it - because what I know is what I know. In my mind I do not have doubts about what I talked to you about. These are things that I know. Knowing something is not about reading something in a book, it is inside of you physically. So there were two options: either everyone around me is wrong and I am right, or two: I am crazy - and I have no problems coming to that conclusion [laughs] - so I just went away and it took me three or four years to check that I was not crazy. And I found-out that I was not [laughs], so then I was alone maybe physically but no longer alone in my mind.
DAVID: What did you do to check that you were not crazy, did you consult with other scientists, experts, artists in your field of investigation?
SO FAR NOT A SINGLE SCIENTIST, NOT A MAN OF RELIGION, NOT A MAN OF PHILOSOPHY
HAS YET BROKEN MY THEORY AND FOUND A FLAW.
HACMON: I do not get my validations from other people no, I kept doing more research - particularly online and lectures on Youtube for instance, and came to my own conclusions. You put out different mathematical hypothesis and try infirm them or confirm them. For instance, the fact that all life started in water - and I did not find one single fact recusing this, etc… If I am correct they should find bacteria on Mars and sure enough they go to Mars they find bacterias. If I am correct this should happen, that should happen etc…And so far everything I said happened as I said. So what originally was a cause for anxiety became an ‘avant-garde’ theory. Now I can stand firm in front of those people who were criticizing me the most, and explain my theory and see if they can destroy it; so far no one, not a single scientist, not a man of religion, not a man of philosophy has yet broken my theory or found a flaw. I am just waiting, if this happens I will welcome it and surely let everyone know. This is how I operate, I don’t have agendas or ego. So I am still waiting for somebody to prove me wrong, and if they do that is a good thing it means we found out more right? So either way we are on the right track, we have got to keep this conversation going. Unfortunately, we can not necessarily do that in a college or university because the theory of evolution today is the Law…
DAVID: Are you planning to gather a larger scientific community or team around you to push things further and validate your model?
HACMON: I just bought a building which is going to be a water museum research center. It is a big building and the whole building is going to be dedicated to this. There is a water conference in Belgium every year and I am going to host this conference here for the first time. So people will come and give talks and educate about water through exhibits, classes and art. I had to find this place and I worked very hard to get this building and that’s what it’s going to be! This, and the Youtube channel, and we will hire more people, absolutely. I would give it a year to do the official opening. Right now we are designing it and trying to be financially astute about it.
DAVID: One last question, a bit peculiar because again we do not know what this ‘god’ looks like [laughs] - but if god exists, in whichever way shape or form, when you arrive in paradise, what would you like him to tell you?
HACMON: Oh to tell me? [laughs] I would like to tell him! [laughs]
DAVID: You would have plenty of things to tell him!
HACMON: I actually do not have any more questions for him - or her! - which is a strange thing to say. I, honestly, through my journey in meditation, have received answers to all my questions, which is part of why we are talking now about this project. That is an interesting one…I would probably ask him ‘Am I crazy’? [Laughs]
DAVID: [Laughs!] You will have to make an appointment for this, because he is pretty busy answering other people! [Laughs]
HACMON: Or I will ask him what I am doing here because I am supposed to be at the ocean!
DAVID: You said ‘at the ocean’?
HACMON: Yes, because this is where I am supposed to be when I die.
DAVID: Do you meditate every day?
HACMON: Well yes definitely, mostly I spend time in the garden. I like gardening. I would not give any type of advice, but surely everything I know, I know through the plants and animals that are around me.
DAVID: I can relate, I speak to them a lot too [laughs].
THERE IS A LOT GOING AROUND THAT WE CAN NOT SEE.
HACMON: Yes, they know exactly what is going on. They see things that we do not see. There is a lot going on around that we do not see.
DAVID: Thank you very much Moses Hacmon.
HACMON: I am happy about this conversation it made me feel good, thank you. I hope one day to bring the show to Europe!
Moses Hacmon is the Author of the book FACES of WATER.